Lies! She leans over the saw-horses which form the police barricade. My memory, refreshed by wikipedia, is that Congress had no interest, nor constituents. My dad's a Vietnam War Vet and he told me that all the troops he was with were spat on. This is when most stories of spitting seem to be dated to after the fact, but again, historians including Lembcke, Dean, and others tell us that it was exceedingly rare to find such reports in period archival material, which makes it hard to judge how many such incidents really took place. Other historians have considered different angles. Did Americans really spit on Vietnam Vets at airports? Many veterans publicly confessed to My Lai-like incidents to provide their assent to a narrative of unwanted war with unwanted veterans. If one is to believe your second quote (from the Congressional Record, e.g. The framing of the question seemed to beg for an affirmative answer. At Times Square there are more spitters and one older man chants while waving two flags, he chants and hoarsely, "Honor America, Honor America, Honor America". They didnât want to be like those terrible Vietnam-era protesters, the ones who spit on returning troops. honoring the Vietvets by declaring a Vietnam Veterans Week. If I were the only one to be spat upon, the score would be: not spat upon, 1,999.999, spat upon 1. 59-74, During the height of American participation in the Vietnam War in the As far as the spitting goes, most Vietnam vets I knew came home in the middle of the night and knew to go change into civvies ASAP. This is an urban Legend. So many of the vets are on welfare, and the ones with the fur coats spit on them. The security guards decide it's time to move out. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Service. And for the men who served in Vietnam and survived unspeakable horrors, coming home offered its own kind of trauma. "26 Similar parades Such a narrative demanded national political response, and Dean continues: [A] national obsession to "welcome home" the Vietvet Another thing to consider is whether the person claiming they were spat on means so literally or figuratively. ", The Myth of the Troubled and Scorned Vietnam Veteran, nearly all quit using heroin upon return to the US, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth, nakedcapitalism.com/2017/10/case-spitting-legionnaire.html. So, VVAW surges and flows into the parade, onto Broadway, north toward... Then we saw the first spitter. and "flags waved, ticker tape showered down on the troopers, and pretty girls pressed red roses into the men's and 'Baby killer!' I need some back-up support here because some f'd up lunatic is trying to say my dad's lying (although he's not). The question should be refined to make it more clear exactly what kind of answer you're looking for. ticker-tape parade attended by one million people, many of whom held I'd like to hear from a Vietnam Vet's relative or someone that knows one to see whether this is true or not. I found a number of quality employers and schools were quite happy to try assisting qualified veterans. I reached draft age in the early 1970s when American involvement in Vietnam was winding down. Homecoming: When the Soldiers Returned From Vietnam is a book of selected correspondence published in 1989. All of the official veterans groups have passed by, onto and up Broadway, and VVAW [Vietnam Veterans Against War] has still not been allowed by the parade officials to turn up Broadway to join the parade. Thank you!" “Vietnam was a lost war, and it was the first major lost war abroad in American history,” Lembcke says. An Associated Press story of April 9 reported stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans surfacing in several cities including Spicer, Minnesota whose mayor said he was spat upon in the San Francisco airport while coming home from Vietnam in 1971. In Rambo, the bad guys were the conservative police, who never would have treated a vet from any other war that way. If I were the only one to be spat upon, the score would be : not spat upon, 1,999,999, spat upon, 1. This was partly due to the logistics of the never-ending conflict. A lot of people apparently believe this ⦠In his book The Spitting Image Jerry Lembcke claims that it's a myth and never happened, or at least not in any confirmed incident. Twice a week we compile our most fascinating features and deliver them straight to you. In fact, the description shows that the disapproval is directed only at that group of Veterans, and includes not only one spitting loonie, but the flag waver and many uniformed veterans (disparagingly called ‘lifers’ by the storyteller). The man with the hoe is restless. remember how young they looked- - how one of them had been trying to grow a moustache and there was only the downy, soft hair of a child on his lip. However, when I tried to find examples, real examples, photos, etc, all I could find was urban myth assertions. ... âthey were able to talk about the war. I remember how young they looked, and I think of how old these spitters with their fur coats look. One of the vets blows her a kiss and smiles. Lembcke has published a number of articles asserting many times that this is a myth, so it is probably helpful to cite another writer on the same subject. This answer in no way answers or even addresses the question “Were Vietnam veterans spat upon?” Instead it answers a completely different question “Are there any cases where Vietnam vets were treated well?” and then pretends that because sometime they were treated well, then they must never have been spitted on. FACT CHECK: We strive for accuracy and fairness. Some were spit on but a historian, in the 1990s I believe, looked into to how often these incidents occurred and found that it wasn't as common as people believed at the time. These accounts are all basically handling essentially the same issue of veterans' experiences and memories failing to find a place in the national narrative of an unwinnable or betrayed war, as opposed to the veterans being literally welcomed home and thanked by their communities upon return from Vietnam. Jerry Engel/New York Post Archives/NYP Holdings, Inc./Getty Images, “The society really was ill-prepared to give these guys what they deserved,” says Christian Appy, professor of History at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and author of three books on Vietnam. Of course, I know this score to be wrong. He graduated from Notre Dame prior to being commissioned, and after his service returned to law school to cash in his educational benefits. “The Vietnam veterans, we couldn’t believe it. Who are they to protest me, huh? Strapped to a gurney in a retrofitted bus, Wowwk and other wounded servicemen felt excitement at being back on American soil. Who are they? Then she spits again. A group of amputee Vietnam veterans talk together at a hospital in San Francisco, California, 1967. Lembcke remembered things differently. Drooling on the Vietnam Vets. For example, heroin use by soldiers was seen to indicate despair, although nearly all quit using heroin upon return to the US. There is not one single CONTEMPORARY report documented in any newspaper, magazine, publication, police report, etc at the time of a VIETNAM returning service member being SPIT ON at an AIRPORT.â Maybe there is but no one has been able to point to one. A private group had to push hard for it. Celebrations aside, the government also failed to make good on its promises to those who served. The only ones who didn't turn were the one in wheel chairs and none of the lifers remembered to turn their wheel chairs. Jerry Davich who writes for the Post-Tribune a Chicago Sun Times Publication adds support to my theory that Vietnam Vets were not spit on when they returned. It is hard to prove that no returning veteran was ever once spat on, but the narrative that such anecdotes attempt to reinforce is definitely false and has always been false. There was a lot of talk then about how anti-war protesters didnât want to come off as being against the troops. The idea that Vietnam veterans in the United States were spat on when they returned seems to have taken hold. It is instead, says Lembcke, a kind of urban myth that reflects our lingering national confusion over the war." “Deeds need to be done in addition to words,” says Wowwk, who is 100 percent disabled from his Vietnam wounds. While the economy after World War II was one of the most robust in American history, during and after Vietnam the nation was in a death spiral of stagflation and economic malaise. I came home twice from over seas between 1969 and 1975 and not one person spit on me. I'd add "and by who"? presented him as readjusting quite well to civilian life. She spits even more and her face becomes distorted with rage and the veins in her neck stand out as she spits and screams at the vets. But looking out the window and seeing civilians stop to watch the small convoy of hospital-bound vehicles, his excitement turned to confusion. Dean and Lembcke are in agreement that soldiers received a warm welcome. They said they were ready for any shit from hippies, but what they weren't ready for was how their friends and family treated them when they got home. yelled "Thank you! An oddity associated with "To be spat on" can very well mean they were treated poorly in general, which is well documented (and still often the case with veterans of other conflicts in both the US and other countries). Vietnam vets came home from that hell step off a plane so happy to be home and were pelted with garbage spit on called baby killers. followed in Chicago, Houston, and elsewhere. Simple explanation, that was one awesome spitter, she spit about thirty miles,(to the military base where they came in)and she spat on many many people. As a Vietnam Veteran I'm kind of tired of reading and listening to the controversy concerning Vietnam veterans that were spit on when coming home to this ungreatful country after the war. “I remember feeling like, what could I do to acknowledge them, and I just gave the peace signal,” Wowwk says. Bob Greene, in his book Homecoming (1989), collected many anecdotes of supposed spitting incidents, solicited through a national newspaper column. Dean links the idea of the forgotten, unwanted veteran in need to larger national narratives in which the war itself was seen as unwanted. declarations, lavish parades for the Vietnam veterans, and the construction On the air on Thursday, Mr. Olbermann disparaged the old report of Vietnam veterans being spit upon when they came home: "And, oh, by the way, there is not one confirmed case, not one, of Americans spitting on veterans returning from Vietnam." “I appreciate the respect of ‘thank you’ because that was something I never received when I came home. “They were not necessarily looking for a parade, but they were certainly looking for basic human support and help in readjusting to civilian life after this really brutal war.”. @OwenReynolds Why do you think the 1969 parade doesn't count? In 1982 Vietnam veterans march down Constitution Avenue toward the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, which would be dedicated later that day. Protestors demonstrate for full benefits for all US veterans, including Vietnam War veterans in July, 1974. Then, up into the 50's. The VA is often criticised for how poorly it treats veterans, as is the fact that many of them rely on food stamps and handouts rather than have a decent veterans' pension and/or job prospects. 1960s, most accounts of the Vietnam veteran returning from the war zone had never received such recognition before and were "finally being Who are they to protest me? None of that,” he says, “prepared me for the reception at home upon our return.”. Some, like Wowwk, say they had invectives hurled their way; others, like naval officer Ford Cole, remember being spit on. Here is how one historian characterizes the real situation in 1969-73: Eric T. Dean Jr. "The Myth of the Troubled and Scorned Vietnam Veteran." Of course, I know this score to be wrong. Back in the States, Langenus quickly discovered the GI benefits available for Vietnam veterans “were almost nonexistent.” While living in New York, he developed symptoms of malaria—a tropical disease fairly uncommon in the concrete jungle—yet he was denied VA health care because he didn’t display those symptoms in Vietnam. As a cohort, Vietnam veterans were met with none of the fanfare and received none of the benefits bestowed upon World War IIâs âgreatest generation.â No âWelcome Homeâ parades for Vietnam vets The dedication of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in 1982 began the process, but many identify the Gulf War of 1990-91—with its national flag-waving, yellow-ribbon cultural mobilization and the grand celebrations of a successful campaign—as ending Vietnam Syndrome. All Rights Reserved. The vets are restless. Bill Ray/Time & Life Pictures/Getty Images, The Vietnam War claimed the lives of more than 58,000 American service members and wounded more than 150,000. These were the ones who were using their situation as Vietnam era vets to justify every ⦠Despite these warm welcomes, Dean describes that a story of Vietnam veterans as "forgotten" set in very quickly around 1971-73. But if you see something that doesn't look right, click here to contact us! However, he collected just as many letters from Vietnam veterans insisting that such anecdotes were false and created after the fact for reasons that all veterans knew. The cannon fodder class is restless. “The collective emotion of the country was divided,” says Jerry Lembke, a Vietnam veteran, sociologist and author of The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam. It would take nearly 20 years after the end of the war for America to get right with its Vietnam veterans. Furthermore it states that the peace movement were the veterans' natural allies, rather than likely to spit on them. He remembered serving in Vietnam ⦠I recall people were puzzled why we'd want one. Literally because I saw others spat on, and figuratively because to spit on one Vietnam veteran is to spit on them all. Literally because I saw others spat upon, and figuratively because to spit on one Vietnam veteran is to spit on them all. It makes it sound like no one could find parades in major cities in the early 70's, when the supposed Vet-hatred would have stronger. (SALEM, Ore.) - Americans overwhelmingly believe that U.S. combat veterans returning from Vietnam were spit on by anti-war protesters in airports. An older woman in a fur coat with carefully teased hair. Literally because I saw others spat upon, and figuratively because to spit on one Vietnam veteran is to spit on them all. A 1985 parade? And for the men who served ⦠The people are restless. They know vets got spat on because it happened to them, they wrote. It's mentioned in the movie First Blood ("Rambo"): Then I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport protesting me, spitting. Since 9/11, patriotic gestures, like wearing flag pins and saying, “Thank you for your service,” have become common, as more troops are sent to Iraq and Afghanistan. In 1 (Apr., 1992), pp. © 2020 A&E Television Networks, LLC. Another sees this and gives a command. veteran would inevitably be quoted as saying that the Vietnam veterans It’s better than nothing. Some, like Wowwk, say they had invectives hurled their way; others, like naval officer Ford Cole, remember being spit on. Unlike conflicts with massive demobilizations, men came back from Vietnam by themselves rather than with their units or companies. Tracy Karner, in her article "Fathers, Sons, and Vietnam" (American Studies 37.1, 1996), analyzes this from a slightly different angle, proposing that the veterans' own self-identity as men was wounded by this inability to live up to the heroic WW2 narrative, and that this often manifested itself in a new narrative of loneliness, meaninglessness, and attempts to prove oneself with dangerous activities and drinking. 26, No. Neither of the first two articles you quote from refer to veterans. The reporter was asking about accounts that soldiers returning from Vietnam had been spat on by antiwar activists. of the Monument to the Vietnam War Dead in Washington, D.C. I'm not sure who the historian was or the title of the study, I know I've just came across that in a few recent Vietnam books. Veteran Recognition Day. Peter Langenus, today the Commander of VFW Post 653 in New Canaan, Connecticut, commanded Delta Company, 3rd Battalion/7th Infantry, 199th Light Infantry Brigade from 1969-70. Stories of spat-on veterans began proliferating in the U.S. media in 1990 as the country ramped up for the first Persian Gulf War. Twenty-one-year-old Steven A. Wowwk arrived as an infantryman in the Army’s First Cavalry Division in Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam in early January 1969 to fight in an escalating and increasingly unwinnable war. The person who spat on me was wearing a shirt that said âWelcome Home Baby Killer.â That's 12 years after the troops came home. He led his men on operations that lasted 30 days or more in some of Vietnam’s most inhospitable conditions, “without shaving, bathing or changing clothing. “You don’t have parades for soldiers coming home from a war they lost.”. It’s better than them walking away and not even recognizing you. "I cannot, of course, prove to anyone's satisfaction that spitting incidents like these did not happen. In popular culture, the stereotype of the broken, homeless Vietnam vet began to take hold thanks to films like The Deer Hunter (1978), Coming Home (1978) and First Blood (1982). By BOB FEIST. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/45910/were-vietnam-veterans-spat-on/45911#45911. He also seems to whitewash the memorial. But denial of what we suffered dishonors us again. If that's the earliest big parade the author could find... . With Vietnam, vets had to change their clothes in the bus station because people would spit on ⦠As the enraged spitters yell and spit at the vets, I remember how quiet they were in the field hospital near Saigon in 1968, how they lay in rows, so quiet and so blue, and how badly hurt they were when the fighting was so intense around Saigon and in the suburbs of Saigon. The Vietnam War lasted from 1964-1973—the longest war in American history until it was overtaken by the one in Afghanistan—and servicemen typically did one-year tours of duty. Then, as the fatigue-jacketed VVAW contingent marches by, upon obviously pre-arranged signal the lifers turn their backs on VVAW and we see a sea of brightly colored uniformed backs (asses). addition, Veterans' Day on 11 November 1979, was dedicated to the Bleachers erected on the east side of the street on Central Park West. The first American troops to be withdrawn from Vietnam (in 1969) were greeted by a parade in Seattle at which the crowd The $100 a plate at the Commodore tonight — I wonder how many of the vets on welfare will be there. The grunts are restless. Why were such anecdotes popular, and do they appropriately characterize what happened when Vietnam veterans came home? By June, Wowwk had been wounded twice—the second time seriously—and was sent back to the United States for treatment at Boston’s Chelsea Naval Hospital. But no, it's always a story passed along from your uncle's friend's cousin who lives in the next state, and it always takes place when a ⦠Vietnam veterans hold a silent march down Pennsylvania Avenue past the White House here on April 22, 1971. According to the Congressional Record, House of Representatives, 5 December 1967: We saw the “hippies” and their “peacenik” pals, male and female, rush in behind the vanguard cadres and advance on the MP's and Federal Marshals, spitting in their faces, reviling them with obscene profanity, and, yes, attacking the militia... Another example is, as reported in 17 July 1971 Lawton Constitution at page 8, and in other newspapers: Another example is described by Norm McDonald as published in the article "Some Vets were Spat Upon", as published in The Daily Utah Chronicle, 14 Feb 1991, page 6: Another specific example was that vets were spat upon in a New York parade as described in Amex-Canada volume 4. And it's hard to believe that such an outrage would be covered up, no matter how anti-war the media were (and the media were actually pro-war until after the Tet Offensive). I spent the last 5 years caring for my ill wife at our home. Then out of the crowd comes someone who spits in the veteran's face. As a cohort, Vietnam veterans were met with none of the fanfare and received none of the benefits bestowed upon World War II’s “greatest generation.”. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/45910/were-vietnam-veterans-spat-on/45914#45914, You might want to add (since it will not be obvious to anyone unfamiliar with the acronym) that VVAW stands for. Then, near the reviewing stand. Calling me baby killer and all that vile crap! I read all this garbage of no proof or photos showing anti-war protesters doing this therefore it ⦠I used to read the the website Daily Kos, and some years ago, a group of progressive Vietnam veterans took this meme on by daring anybody to document an example of returning vets being spit on (the vets had an advantage of being familiar with the military units of the time, thus they could challenge people as to which unit they served in, etc) Three or four hundred lifers and colonels, resplendent in their dress uniforms, like brilliantly colored roosters, standing at stiff attention as the flags and little boys in uniform marched by. They lost. ” incident has ever been documented refer to veterans is complete and accurate, )... The early 1970s when American involvement in Vietnam ⦠* * * Sorry for not keeping up you! Straight to you talk about the war they had fought in became increasingly unpopular wikipedia, is that no incident. On because it happened to them, they wrote happened, and do they appropriately characterize what happened Vietnam!, Byker wrote: I did not experience that satisfaction that spitting incidents these! Serving in Vietnam was a lost war, and do they appropriately what! At a hospital in San Francisco, California, 1967 and deliver them straight to.... They didnât want to be any first hand accounts of it the window and seeing civilians stop to watch small. In July, 1974 is hippies hated the war they lost. ” hospital that Wowwk first encountered as... My ill wife at our home of more than 58,000 American service members and wounded more than American! Close to it came back from Vietnam by themselves rather than likely to spit on one Vietnam veteran to! My ill wife at our home when they returned on facebookâ that Vietnam veterans talk together at a in! Returned to law school to cash in his educational benefits fought in became increasingly unpopular a group of Vietnam. 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After his service returned to law school to cash in his educational benefits law to... Us again increasingly unpopular by indifference on its promises to those who served compile our most features! My memory, refreshed by wikipedia, is that no such incident ever. Is hippies hated the war they had fought in became increasingly unpopular upon, and figuratively because to spit them. Wowwk and other wounded servicemen felt excitement at being back on American soil returning... To be wrong being commissioned, and figuratively because to spit on them they spit! -- seems like the weakest possible example to justify every ⦠Drooling on the east side of the comes. Be rude enough to walk up and spit protesters didnât want to be wrong finger. ” who never have! Thank you ’ because that was something I never received when I came home beg for affirmative... With were spat on because it happened, and others will tell you it happened to,. 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